Having Ears, Do You Not Hear?

Having Ears, Do You Not Hear? Ancient practices help us stop merely studying the Bible, and start listening to it. An interview with Eugene Peterson

Friday, February 6, 2009
When were you first introduced to lectio divina?
To tell you the truth, I can't remember. But I was doing lectio divina long before I ever heard the term. In high school I was very much involved in poetry. You cannot read a poem quickly. There's too much going on there. There are rhythms and alliterations. You have to read poetry slow, slow, slow to absorb it all. That's how I began reading and praying psalms as a student, because I realized they were poems.

So reading poetry taught you how to read Scripture?
Right. The first time you read a poem, you usually don't understand it. You've got to read it ten times or more. You've got to listen to it. That's just like the four steps of lectio divina (see sidebar). The four steps are not sequential. They're more like a spiral staircase. You keep going around and around, coming back to this step and over to that one.. It's fluid.

How did this more fluid relationship to Scripture affect your church ministry?
We formed small groups in my congregation. People called them "Bible study groups," but that was a problem. When you put the word study in the name, people think the goal is to master information. So they think the Bible is something you try to understand and explain. That is a huge barrier to break through. In fact, I can't say that I was very successful at it.

How did you try?
Well, I quit calling them "Bible study groups." I called them "conversation groups." We had conversations with the Bible. We would take a passage and listen to it; different people would read it in different voices and we'd try to hear the poetry of the language, the sounds, and the message. I took notes as people shared, and then after an hour I would finally bring out some commentaries. I would show them that we had uncovered virtually everything the commentary said just through our conversation. I was trying to break the stronghold that academic scholarship has over us. We don't trust ourselves to encounter God's Word.

Are you opposed to using commentaries?
No. Dictionaries, concordances, and commentaries are useful, but they sure get in the way of listening to the text. There is nothing terribly difficult in the Bible—at least in a technical way. The Bible is written in street language, common language. Most of it was oral and spoken to illiterate people. They were the first ones to receive it. So when we make everything academic, we lose something.

Why don't more people engage the Bible reflectively?
When you've spent twelve, fourteen, or eighteen years in school, your habits form in a non-reflective way. And it isn't a school's job to make us reflective. We need to learn information. We need to pass examinations and be able to read and retain. But most of us have never been taught to read and listen reflectively.

Is that what pastors should be teaching their congregations to do?
Yes, but it's not something you just learn and teach. It takes practice. Pastors have to practice it first; they must enter into it. And in order to do that, pastors simply have to quit being in such a damn big hurry. Pastors are the busiest people in the world—always making an appointment or rushing to a meeting. They have no time to listen.
I think pastors are the worst listeners. We're so used to speaking, teaching, giving answers. We must learn to be quiet, quit being so verbal, learn to pay attention to what's going on, and listen.
It's not only about listening to the Bible, it's about listening to people—taking time to hear the nuances in their voices and language, and repeat what we're hearing. We're all very poorly educated in this business.

As our world becomes more technological with more ways to communicate, do you think it's becoming harder for pastors to slow down and listen?
Yes, but who else is going to do it if not pastors? No one else has the opportunity and the calling we have. I mean, we are the only identifiable group in society commissioned to pray, reflect on Scripture, and listen. And we are part of a spiritual Christian culture based on the Word. Pastors have got to learn to take words more seriously—not just as information or doctrine or rules. If we don't, who will?

As you challenge pastors to slow down, listen, and reflect, what kind of responses are you getting?
Pastors tell me they would lose their jobs if they lived that way. And they might be right. I was called to my church when it was a new congregation. I was the only pastor most of the people had ever known. They were used to me and my perspective on ministry. After being there about ten years, I realized there probably wasn't another church in the country that would hire me. No one else would put up with my way of living and working.
But I know a significant number of pastors who have slowed down to really listen. But they made a deliberate choice to do it. I have one friend who just resigned from his 800 member church without another call. His criteria for accepting another church is that it must be less than one hundred members. There are pastors choosing this kind of life, but you don't usually hear about them.

Are smaller churches more conducive for pastors to foster listening lives?
No. I think you can do it in any size congregation, but the pastor must want to do it. And he must be willing to set aside the time to do it.
If a pastor starts listening to Scripture reflectively, how will it impact his or her preaching?
The preaching will be more conversational and probably less polished. In the last class I taught at Regent, a young woman came up to me and was very irritated.
"Dr. Peterson," she said, "three times during the lecture you did not say anything for twenty seconds. I know because I timed you. I'm from Hong Kong. In Hong Kong, teachers go: Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! I want my money's worth."
We're going to have people like that, people who want very polished and efficient teaching. But when I see people in my congregation taking notes during the sermon, I stop and say, "Put your pencils away. I want you to listen. Listen to the Word of God. It's not something for you to figure out; it's something for you to respond to."
It's slow work, and pastors are not patient people.

What about right doctrine? Might people mishandle Scripture if they engage it through conversation rather than rigorous and analytical study?
As a pastor, I'm not a theology policeman. Of course there are going to be misunderstandings —that goes with language. How many times in a marriage do a husband & wife misunderstand each other? And those misunderstandings don't occur because they used incorrect grammar.
But if we are part of a community where the Scriptures are honored, I don't think we have to worry too much. The Spirit works through community. Somebody will have a stupid, screwy idea. That's okay. The point of having creeds and confessions and traditions is to keep us in touch with the obvious errors. Because we have those resources, I don't think we have to be anxious about it.

What is Lectio Divina?
Distinct from other ways of approaching the Bible, the ancient Christian practice of lectio divina (spiritual reading) is the primary mode of reading the Bible for transformation. There is a place for reading large portions of the Bible in one sitting, such as an entire book, but this is not it. Here we are concerned with depth rather than breadth. There is also a place for Bible study, in which we apply exegetical tools of interpretation, but this is not "study" per se. Rather, lectio is a way of allowing the mind to "descend" into the heart, so that both mind and heart might be drawn into the love and goodness of God. Our goal is immersion. We are shaped by the environment in which we live and breathe and interact. Lectio immerses us in the deep and timeless waters of God, that more of God's eternal life might flow into our time-bound lives.
In its classic form, lectio comprises four elements, although there are many variations on them with different wording and emphasis: lectio (reading with a listening spirit), meditatio (reflecting on what we are "hearing"), oratio (praying in response to this hearing), and contemplatio (contemplating what we will carry forward into our lives). We can also refer to these basic elements of lectio as listening, reflecting, praying, and obeying. When these elements are combined—regardless of sequence, for they overlap and intermingle in a circular rather than a linear way—they lead the human spirit into a dynamic interaction with the Holy Spirit.
—Richard J. Foster

Eugene H. Peterson is a retired pastor, author, and professor of spiritual theology at Regent College in Vancouver, British Columbia.